He had been at the most 21 and you may maybe more youthful than if their child Joanna was born. She may well was basically the eldest of all the students he fathered by his various mistresses.
John was born in December 1167
1187 Summer - John in France when Chateauroux was being besieged 1187 June 23 - truce 1188 Jan. 30 - Henry productivity in order to England, maybe which have John from inside the tow 1188 June - Henry sends John back to , crosses out of 1189 June 12 - John from the Ce People's when disarmed by the Henry's purchase, following John fled otherwise was added away for coverage 1189 July 6 - Henry We dies from inside the France 1189 Aug. 12 - Richard will bring John returning to The united kingdomt that have your 1189 Aug. 31 - John hitched so you're able to Isabelle of Gloucester on Marlebridge 1189 September. step 3 - Richard crowned within Westminster Abbey 1189 Oct. - Richard delivers John on Wales so you're able to subdue brand new edgy Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned to and you can pushed on oath never to set foot to the England for a few age 1190 Summer - Richard continues crusade [John breaks his oath] In regards to our objectives, it is believed that the initial period, and also the very probably going back to Joanna to own come developed, 's the 1187-nine several months. 1187 - John uses around the entire year inside the France naimisiin Kypros-naisen kanssa 1188 - John may have gone back to England inside January, however, of the june is sent back once again to France, where the guy seems to have remained 1189 - John appears to be in the France January - August, returning to The united kingdomt within the August when preparing to have his relationship on 30 Aug. If John generated don't unrecorded productivity to The united kingdomt, it would appear that the guy spent in the 80% from their day out of January 1187 up to his marriage, in France . He was will ultimately considering the County off Mortain, from inside the (in advance of Richard's coronation).
The above mentioned recommendations, given the period additionally the fact that Joanna is put so you can England out of France during the 1203 for their own marriage to Llywelyn, lends credence towards the indisputable fact that Joanna along with her mom was indeed of French/Norman source.
Considering including John's well-understood philandering during this period, truth be told there is apparently of a lot individuals toward character from mom from Joanna!
My personal past post gave all the information you to definitely Paget showed that they is actually Clemence de Dauntsey, who married Nicholas de- Verdun. I believed that this was this new Nicholas and you will Clementia to who Henry 111 granted the new infant custody from Susanna (since the an excellent hostage) during the 1228. Immediately after a special enough time search not, I can discover no trace of a beneficial Clemence de Dauntsey inside the the details. Used to do discover however, the latest view of a single genealogist just who certainly said it as…’ In my opinion that we (the newest genealogists) established there was zero such as for instance people just like the Clemence de Dauntsey. One personality of one’s wife away from Nicholas de- Verdun try a blunder from the Paget!’
I am willing to believe that achievement, given that then studies of ideas of next Clemence ended up far more productive.
Normandy
Clemence le Boteler came into this world in the 1175 within the Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire. Her dad is Philip le Boteler (born circa 1150).
Clemence le Boteler partnered Nicholas de- Verdun during the 1202 (their second wife immediately following his matrimony to help you Joan Fitz Piers. Mention, which wedding isn’t shown) during the Alton, Staffordshire plus they got one child, Rohese de Verdun who was simply born in 1203 or 1205 (passed away. Feb 1247).
In the event the, in reality, Joanna try the consequence of an effective liaison between John and you may Clemence le Boteler (who would was in fact aged up to 14-fifteen during the time), it would was in fact very hard with the Ce Boteler members of the family to locate the ideal husband to have Clemence. In reality particular ten years ticket ahead of a ily?) having a trustworthy English nobleman and property manager, Nicholas de- Verdun. Leaving out for the moment the possibility that Nicholas got fell crazy about the fresh new twenty seven year old Clemence and desired to wed their, it would had been very important to John to incorporate Clemence that have some assets regarding her very own to ensure that she became a more attractive prize to own their future husband.